Anyone in the know of Zildjian Sweet Hats compared to New Beats in 15”.

Discussion in 'Cymbal Talk' started by Rockin' Billy, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:03 PM.

  1. Rockin' Billy

    Rockin' Billy Very well Known Member

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    I’ve read, listened, etc. about these hats but just wondering if anyone here has had hands on experience w/both models.

    Thank you kindly in advance.
     
  2. steveblack

    steveblack Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    I've only got armchair researcher not "hands on" with the A series Sweet Has. But here is what I've got.

    The 15" Sweet Hats came out in 2000 according to Zildjian, and followed the 21" Sweet Ride in 1998.

    Sweet hat weights I've recorded are: 942g over 1160g, 958g over 1153g, 915g over 1170g

    New Beat 15" weights vary over the production era (as the 14" and 13" ones do). On average the tops are a bit heavier (1044g) and the bottoms more so (1513g) compared to the Sweet Hats. But the lighter end of the 15" New Beats weights I've recorded (1960s) are around 900g over 1400g.

    So if weights are a proxy for the expected sound, Sweet Hats hark back to the late 1960s New Beats but with a relatively lighter bottom. I'd expect a bit more half open slosh and sizzle, and a toned down foot chick.
     
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  3. dustjacket

    dustjacket Very well Known Member

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    Redesigned New Beats are thinner these days. Curious how they compare to old Sweet hats.
     
  4. steveblack

    steveblack Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    In the 2013 redesign the tops were thinner and the profile lower, but the bottoms were unchanged so they actually got relatively heavier compared to the tops. It is all documented on my site:

    http://black.net.nz/avedis/a-zil-2013-changes.html

    with a link to Paul Francis going through the changes in a video. In addition I've given more detailed info on 14" New Beats which demonstrates that the changes he mentions are apparent in the weights of cymbals I've analyzed.

    http://black.net.nz/avedis/new-beats.html#NBtop

    I've got 15" data similar to the 14" data but haven't presented it in such great detail. The pattern is the same from what I've looked at so far. What I haven't got is 2013 redesign weights for 15" New Beats. But based on the 14" I'd say the 15" NB tops will be similar to the Sweet tops, and the 15" NB bottoms will be much heavier than the Sweet bottoms. My 15" New Beat pre 2013 weights for tops are over 1000g and bottoms are over 1600g. The lack of 2013 15" New Beats is one of a number of holes in my data collection because I've been busy sorting out the 1930s through 1970s and I haven't yet done that much on later cymbals. I started out looking into "old" or "vintage" cymbals first.

    Are you calling the 2000 Sweet hats "old"? Or are there older ones than the official Zildjian models document mentions? I haven't seen any before 2000. There are Light Hats which appear in 1980 and continue until 1984 (for the 13", 15" and 16" sizes). The 14" Light Hats are offered until 2000 which is when the 15" Sweet came out. I've only got weights for 14" Light Hats and they are 800g to 900g over 950g to 1100g.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018 at 9:25 PM
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  5. dustjacket

    dustjacket Very well Known Member

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    You're an incredible resource! I considered the Sweet hats old because they stopped making them for over a decade, haha. Not old in the true cymbaholic sense.
     
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  6. shiek_yerbouti

    shiek_yerbouti Very well Known Member

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    The Redesigned New Beats are still heavier than the Sweet Hats. I’ve owned both.

    Steve, my 15” Redesigned New Beats weigh in at 1130/1690g, so now you have one data point. :)

    The Sweet Hats I had were like a Med-Thin (or Thin) top with a Med-Thin Bottom. I wish I had recorded the weights for you. But my Sweet Hats top and bottom were very close in weight and I considered them to be pretty light cymbals suited for more quite music. They felt like a light pair of hats.

    By contrast, the New Beats feel heavier - because they definitely are heavier. :) The Redesign (in my experience) did not bring the New Beats anywhere near the Sweet Hats territory. They are still two different animals.
     
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  7. Rockin' Billy

    Rockin' Billy Very well Known Member

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    Thank you kindly for all the replies and education. Much appreciated.
     
  8. steveblack

    steveblack Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    Thanks Tony. I've added your weights.

    It's not hard to get weights for the redesigned New Beats (and many other sizes and models) because there are plenty of new ones for sale online where the weights are given. Thank you Jim Pettit and others for giving weights. I'm just a bit slow about doing all the data entry because I know the weights are easy to come by. I'll probably do it when I want them for writing up a page of details for each specific model. Meanwhile I did find another pair of weights for 15" Sweet Hats: 910g over 1100g. So yeah, the redesigned New Beat top weight is in the same range as the Sweet Hat bottom. But remember that weight isn't everything so they might not be interchangeable. The profile and other attributes could be different. And yes, the New Beat bottom weight checks out as being in the same range before and after the 2013 redesign. Based on my sample of 1 so far. But that will do for now.
     
  9. shiek_yerbouti

    shiek_yerbouti Very well Known Member

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    The tops are definitely different even if in the same weight category. My New Beat top is much stiffer than the Sweet Hats top was. The Sweet Hats top had much more give in the feel of it. Hammering is definitely A type hammering on the Sweet Hats, but the pattern is slightly different. They have a slightly different appearance to them.
     
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  10. TheMattJones88

    TheMattJones88 Well-Known Member

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    I had a pair of sweet hats and I miss them, I sold them for some 70s New Beats like an idiot. I don’t know exact weights or anything, but I can vouch that they felt buttery as hell and sounded nice and smooth. They didn’t have the most cut in the world but they were perfect for some sloshy playing.
     
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  11. nickrobotron

    nickrobotron Well-Known Member

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    The variance must be huge, because one of my good friends has a pair of Brilliant Sweet Hats and the bottom is heavier than any modern New Beat bottom I've seen and the top is lighter than any modern New Beat top I've seen.
     
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  12. steveblack

    steveblack Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    Any change of finding out a bit more? Is all the model ink there and they are clearly a top and a bottom Sweet Hats? Did he buy them new? Special order? Could somebody else have paired them up (besides Leon Chiappini and his assistants in the Zildjian factory)? Any chance of pics and weights?

    I know with Zildjian (and all manufacturers) it is a case of "never say never". Particularly in terms of weight distributions it's still early days in terms of data collection so every little bit helps.
     
  13. dustjacket

    dustjacket Very well Known Member

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    I want to try a pair of Sweets out now :)
     
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