Hayman "Standard" cymbals From The 70's

Discussion in 'Vintage Venue' started by KINGTRIXON, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. KINGTRIXON

    KINGTRIXON Very well Known Member

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    I just acquired these Hayman 16" hi-hat cymbals. The logos are stamped with the words; HAYMAN Standard Made In Switzerland. These cymbals look just like vintage Paiste-Ludwig "Standard" cymbals from the 1960's. They have the same metallic bronze alloy look, and identical lathing. Does anybody have any kind of information on these guys ??
     
  2. toddlittle827

    toddlittle827 Active Member

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    My feeling is the Hayman Standards are the same as Ludwig Standards with a different emboss. Hayman drums were produced from 1968-1975 so the production of the cymbal should fall in that date range. Personally, I think late 60s/early 70s would be a more accurate guess.
     
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  3. kip

    kip DFO Master

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    my old drum teacher from the 1970s told me he had a LUDWIG cymbal or some other DRUM Company Cymbal....and it turned out to be a Paiste
     
  4. rondrums51

    rondrums51 rondrums51

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    Yeah, they're exactly the same as Ludwig Standards by Paiste.

    I have no idea about the alloy. It's not the same as Zildjian, for sure.

    I had a Ludwig Standard 22" ride back in the 70's, and it sounded damn good.
     
  5. robthetimekeeper

    robthetimekeeper DFO Veteran

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    Aren't they Nickle Silver?
     
  6. eddiej

    eddiej DFO Master

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    I believe Ludwig had some sort of promotional agreement with Paiste at that time.
     
  7. rikkrebs

    rikkrebs DFO Master

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    I think so...... Maybe NS12
     
  8. kip

    kip DFO Master

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    I call that he told me it said "Pasha" or something similar on it. it was a 14" from a set of hihats. He used it as a crash.
     
  9. Elvis

    Elvis The King of Rock'n'Roll

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    It's the same, just says Hayman instead of Ludwig.
    Should be made of Nickel-Silver, but being made in Switzerland.....not sure.


    Elvis
     
  10. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    Ancient resurrect, but yes there are Hayman branded Paiste cymbals in various lines. The Ludwig Standards were NS12 up until 1965, then B8 (CuSn8 ) according to this summary:

    http://www.nf-drums.com/paiste_fanpage_paiste_timeline.htm

    We've already seen things missing from the German fan page in terms of country of origin, so it is possible that there are B8 Hayman Standard Paiste cymbals from Germany as well. And because pictures matter for trademark and logo identification here is one I've got on file:

    [​IMG]

    One of the things missing from that German fan page is 602s made in Germany, which have been documented

    http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/85534-paiste-602-ever-made-in-germany/

    This is another example of experts (like Pounder) failing to remember that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". The correct answer at that time (2013) was "I haven't seen one" not "Only the cheap ones are made in Germany."
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  11. Elvis

    Elvis The King of Rock'n'Roll

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    I remember when that German 602 thing was a huge discussion point on the boards.
    So my old German Standard ride was made no later than '65.
    I didn't know that. Interesting.
    Thanks Zen! =)


    Elvis
     
  12. aldenyc2012

    aldenyc2012 Very well Known Member

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    My first used kit was a Slingerland - late 60s. Came with an 18 Zildjian ride ( sill have ) and a pair of 14in hi-hats. Funny thing is the hi-hat's were of two different manufactures. I don't recall one but the other was a German made "Zyn" and I believe was made of nickel-silver allow. These I've come to know were marketed by Premier. Not the best cymbals but sufficed. I sold them along with the old Slingy kit and have regretted that sale .... not at the time but in more recent times :-(
     
  13. toddlittle827

    toddlittle827 Active Member

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    The Hayman Standards are made of B8 like the late period Ludwig Standards. By 1970, it seems Paiste had started making all the "old" lines that were formerly made of NS12 (Stambul, Dixie, SUPER, Ludwig Standards, Stanople) out of B8.

    Yeah, there is that misconception out there among some that the German factory only made the "cheap ones". Not true - back then the German factory made ALL the Paiste lines except for Sound Creation. According to Paiste, they didn't make 602s in Germany from start to finish but they would "finish off 602s" from time to time in the early days. There are plenty of European drummers who actually prefer the German made 2002s and 505s over their Swiss counterparts.
     
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  14. Johnny D

    Johnny D Very well Known Member

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    Very cool info. I didn't know Paiste offered Hayman branded cymbals, but it makes perfect sense considering Arbiter created Hayman Drums and was the UK distributor for Paiste, as was Ludwig in the US.
     
  15. marko52

    marko52 Piper At the Gates of Dawn

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    Pretty sure Pinksterboer says Pasha were made by UFIP for Rogers, but I can't find my book. Think they were considered pretty good cymbals...........marko
     
  16. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    Yes Pasha is UFIP made. The Pinksterboer page is 165. His summary relating Drum Companies to Cymbal Manufacturers is a bit oversimplified, and that got me doing a little background work on what cymbals appear in what Drum Catalogs and when. You can see the Rogers offerings in my summary PDF. Just a work in progress and somewhat Zildjian-centric because I started out trying to pin down the Alejian, Zilco TM, and Zenjian stuff.

    click to download PDF

    This is by no means completed. For example there are these AZCO Canada ones as well:

    Rogers-by-AZCO.png

    I'm not sure whether these are the cymbals named as Rogers in the 1967 Rogers Catalog. Sometimes the Drum Companies are a bit coy about just who makes what. :dontknow:

    Some day I hope it will all get sorted out and we can have it all documented in the replacement Paiste-Only wiki (which is planned to be a bit more than that as you will see) called

    Cymbal Wiki
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  17. EvEnStEvEn

    EvEnStEvEn ~Lounge Lizard~

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    Wow, I look forward to seeing this grow with documents, photos and detailed info!
     
  18. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    I've got you on my list for a shoulder tap for the Sabian area...and of course other brands you've got knowledge about. I have some construction work to do before we're fully open for business. The longest journey begins with the first step.
     
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  19. rock roll

    rock roll Well-Known Member

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    All the German cymbal I own don't sound very good , but in every production line there's always those that for some magical reason turned out sounding really good.

    I Remember when fender squire basses were made in Mexico , everyone said they weren't good, but when a buddy of mine got one .. I had no complaints about it.
    It felt good,sounded good , stayed in tune.

    I've heard same stories about guitar production lines.on the cheaper models.fot some reason the stars aligned on that peticular item.

    I wasn't any help but I enjoyed this thread.
     

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