Paiste 602 opinions

Discussion in 'Cymbal Talk' started by dwdave, Aug 21, 2014.

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  1. Tama CW

    Tama CW Very well Known Member

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    I've sampled some Paiste pre-serial 602 hats (750/920) and a 20" ride (2405 gm) and didn't think they were anything special compared to the 50's to 70's Zildjian A's I've had over the years. The Paiste 602 hats just didn't do anything for me. I prefer the SF/Signature line over those. The best Paiste ride I've played was a late 1970's 20" black Label 2002 (2185 gm).
     
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  2. jaymandude

    jaymandude DFO Veteran

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    That’s the exact reason I started buying and playing them
     
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  3. michaelg

    michaelg Very well Known Member

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    So i picked up a 602 20 medium reissue , this ones about 8 years old and has some patina so its not shiny new.
    Mad keen to hear it in the context of some musical situations but I'll have to wait till next weekend to debut it with a band,

    It does sound really really nice on its own, Like someone else mentioned here, its as if someone took all the qualities from great A's, and put them in one cymbal.
     
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  4. gezz

    gezz DFO Master

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  5. dale w miller

    dale w miller Well-Known Member

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    I have a set of almost every Paiste line and I can tell you when I love what I hear and order one, I know when I get mine I will be happy with it. It’s never failed me.

    My guess is all of the Protypes out there are great sounding that didn’t quite match up.
     
  6. michaelg

    michaelg Very well Known Member

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    Played a bunch of gigs now with the 20" 602 reissue, Fantastic cymbals.
    I'd describe it as literally a perfect cymbal, it just sits so well in the mix ,VERY happy i got one.

    Think I prefer the reissue over the ME version although I'd need to gig both for a while to say for sure. I know some guys here prefer one flavor over another.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  7. Toast Tee

    Toast Tee Well-Known Member

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    I haven't even heard the new ones. I don't like buying cymbals w/out hearing them. Paistes are as consistent as cymbals get. They're made differently than Zil, or Sab. I was lucky enough to get to vintage pre serial 602's. I absolutely love em. I got 2 18's, and even with the pre serial they're extremely consistent (even in weight)
    I mix up 2002's, Giant Beats, Sigs, and of the 2 602's 1 wasn't perfect, so that's the one I use (slight flea bite) right now, I go with 24 inch 2002, 18 Sig Full, 2002 hats, 8 sig, and 11 2002 splashes. I'll switch out the 24 2002 with the GB on occasion, but the 602 is always there.
    They cost a bit more, but I'd rather be satisfied rather than compromise
     
  8. dwdave

    dwdave Groovinator

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    Well, its been about 4 years since the post. I still love them. I really like the 22" ME, and have a 20" as well. I did get a twenty series heavy HH bottom. With that I can use the 602 top and bottom as tops. Someday I'll find a 2002 red label 21" ride. I had one decades ago and loved it. That is in the "I never should have sold it" book....
     
  9. Toast Tee

    Toast Tee Well-Known Member

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    I love those odd number cymbals 17, 19 crashes. I have to say, I don't think I've seen a 21 inch Paiste ride?
    Do you still see em around?
     
  10. RIDDIM

    RIDDIM DFO Master

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    - Exactly. If you have a set of SC's, the ME's are redundant.

    I pinged Paiste a few years back about making a 22" ME flat. Got nowhere. Now if Vinnie were to talk with them nicely....
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  11. Toast Tee

    Toast Tee Well-Known Member

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    Lol. It's not right. Vinny gets to design cymbals, and I've gotta buy em.
     
  12. b/o 402

    b/o 402 Wacky old coot

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    IMG_2666.JPG
    They've made a bunch of 21", including one I still covet, the Sig Silver Mellow Ride:
     
  13. Toast Tee

    Toast Tee Well-Known Member

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    That is beautiful. How does it sound? The Mellow line is new, right?
    Of all the Paiste cymbals I have I don't own a Signature ride. The only Paiste cymbal I've ever owned I didn't like was a 20 inch from 1990ish (when they first came out). I bought it new, along with 14 Sig sound edge hats. Thoes hats, till this day were the best sounding, most versatile hats I ever owned. I ended up selling the ride (it had no stick definition at all) just wash. Every company will have a lemon here, and there, but extremely rare w/paiste.
     
  14. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    The Mellow models have been around a long time in the Signature line, but there have been some recent re-releases. I've got a prototype 21" Silver Mellow which is from 2003. You can hear the 21" Silver Mellow online at the Paiste site, along with some (not all) discontinued models:

    http://www.paiste.com/products/cymbals/sounds/discontinued/signature/

    You will also see sound files for the 21" Dark Full and 21" Full Ride.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  15. DrumKeys

    DrumKeys Very well Known Member

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    I love my 21" Masters medium!
     
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  16. Stuffed Chimp

    Stuffed Chimp Member

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    Now THIS is one cymbal I also covet. I missed one recently that was practically brand new. One day my time will come...
     
  17. Old Drummer

    Old Drummer Well-Known Member

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    I played an 1960's 18" Paiste 602 on the left side for 20 years--and hated the cymbal for all 20 of those years! I don't know why I didn't replace it then, but suppose I didn't because it wasn't my main cymbal and I didn't want to spend money on another. When I finally got around to selling some old gear on eBay a dozen years ago, I was shocked at the high price my 602 fetched. I couldn't believe that anyone actually likes these cymbals, much less that they're coveted vintage cymbals.

    Nosing around online more recently I discovered that the old 602s vary a lot in weight. I have no idea what mine weighed (we didn't weigh cymbals in those days) but wish I did. My guess is that mine was just a bad weight (I suspect too heavy) for what I wanted it to do. If so, maybe a 602 of a different weight would have been more to my liking.

    Also, in fairness, I tapped on a new 602 ride in a store not long ago and kind of liked it. I wasn't in love with it and no way would I pay the $500 sticker price, but I was surprised to consider it a decent cymbal. Meanwhile, Paiste nowadays has a reputation for consistency such that I doubt that the weights vary anywhere near as much as they did during the 1960's. I also understand that Paiste's quality control is top notch overall, such that a buyer is unlikely to get a dog ordering one without playing it first.

    However, I'm still baffled by the popularity of the 602 line.
     
  18. Toast Tee

    Toast Tee Well-Known Member

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    I don't know? Maybe you had a bunk one? I have 2 18 inch 602's, and often throw it in the mix with my 2002's, and sigs.
    I love em both, nor would sell either. Paiste these days are as consistent as they come. That being said, the first 20 inch Sig ride I got (early 90's) sounded horrible. I stayed away from Paiste for a bit until I heard the 14 inch SE Sig hats. Eventually I started letting all my other brands of cymbals go (although I still have a few choice Zils)
    What is the weight on your 602? Even my vintage 602 still has that Paiste tone. It's great to ride on, and crashes beautifully.
    Do you have any recordings of it?
     
  19. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    I'm working on a major multi year study of the differences in weights (and other features like bell shape, taper, and profile) of different models for both Paiste and Zildjian. Weights for a specific model didn't vary more in the 1960s than they do now. It's just that the model ink was gone from most cymbals and people keep mixing up different models. I've collected data on thousands of cymbals to get the few 1960s (or earlier) ones which still have model ink.

    Some people still call every 18" cymbal a Crash or Crash Ride, even when it is clearly a different model based on weight. It may be that the weight parameters for A Zildjian were a bit wider for a specific model than for a specific Paiste model, but I haven't really done enough analysis on that yet. All I know for sure is that it is loss of model ink (or paying to attention to model ink when it is present) which has caused the myth of excessive weight variation in the 1960s.

    What you wanted your 18" fo602 to do, and what it lacked for you, is a matter of personal taste. If you give a more complete description of what it was missing and what you wanted I might be able to relate that to a specific model. It might have been a Heavy or a Medium Ride model, and you wanted a lower pitched Medium or Thin, or perhaps even a Thin Crash which opened up more quickly. :dontknow:
     
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  20. Old Drummer

    Old Drummer Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I was a kid when I bought my 602, probably around 1968 - 1969, and I'm not sure what I wanted from it. By then I had my A Zildjian ride and hats, though for some reason wanted another cymbal, I guess because the rock drummers at the time had two cymbals and I wanted two as well. You would know better than I, but I don't remember anyone then buying cymbals specifically for crashes, except orchestras. They probably did but I was unaware. I'm not sure when I became aware of crash cymbals, probably sometime early in the 1970's, and I'll admit that to this day I resent paying too much for only a crash. It still seems to me that you can bash any cymbal (even though I realize this isn't true) and a cymbal worth paying for ought to do more than go "crash." Anyway, my drum teacher was an old jazz drummer (who buckled his belt on the side) and only had one cymbal himself, so I was kind of going out on my own. I wanted to buy another Zildjian, just because they were "the best," but he told me that the Paiste 602 was a less expensive up-and-coming contender, so I let him order one. I do think he recommended an 18" since I already had a 20". In those days, as I recall, the dimensions and brand of the cymbals were the only things I remember considering. I don't know what 602 he ordered for me and don't recall ever reading anything on the cymbal that indicated its purpose. It was just supposed to be different from the 20" A Zildjian I had.

    Early on, and actually for many years, I mainly used and wanted to use the 602 as an alternative ride. This was probably because I was mostly playing in supper club type acoustic bands where any crash would be way too loud. Brush work was common. Then, when it came to the rock bands I played in on the side, well, I just bashed any cymbal. The music was so loud that it didn't matter.

    In any event, what I didn't like about my Paiste 602 (which over the years I came to use in country rock bands too) is that it was neither a good ride nor a good crash. Generally, I still used it as an alternate ride, just to change the tone in portions of a song that seemed to me to benefit from a cymbal change, but the ride sound I got had annoying overtones. It was best to use it in loud portions of songs when I couldn't hear the overtones. As a crash, it was too damn loud and ugly. Again, though, if the music was loud enough, who cares?

    My total guess today now that I'm somewhat familiar with cymbal weights is that this 602 was medium or medium-heavy weight. It was just too heavy for a crash but didn't have enough meat to ride well. (Actually, I still wonder whether an 18" can work as a decent ride.) Recently I tried an 18" Paiste 2002 at 1560 grams and immediately thought of my former 602, wondering if I was right back where I started. The 2002 crashed better, but IMO was worthless as a ride. I think the 602 was the opposite, better as a ride than a crash, but in the same family of neither fish nor fowl.

    But I must add that I simply didn't like the tone of my 602, and that's a different issue than weight. The 2002 I briefly had (I sold it quickly) at least had a better tone. However, go figure, I used the 602 for many years anyway. It probably wasn't that bad, and probably did work OK as an alternate ride.

    I've got to be a lousy source of information on the 602 because I don't know what I had or what I wanted to have. During all those years, it strangely never dawned on me to question or change it. It was just my cymbal and I used it. In fairness to myself, there weren't the choices back then that there are today, or the information. I also played Ludwig drums, albeit over the years interspersed with drums from other makers, because there weren't all the options that there are today. Even when the market started to open up, I just mostly stuck with what I knew, including the 602. I did, as I recall, try a newfangled flat ride sometime during the 1970's that the owner of a local drum shop suggested, but I didn't take to the flat ride. More than this, the whole idea of a dedicated drum store was novel. I had never heard of such a store before this one opened up (in a house in a low-income neighborhood). We just didn't have the options in those days.

    I'd be interested today though in retrieving the 602 in order to at least know what it weighed. It never dawned on me then that cymbals of the same diameter had different weights.
     

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