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Discussion in 'General' started by DanRH, Jan 6, 2019.
Sidebar FYI - The Artie Dixson Lift is now in the D'Addario family of products.
I've used 20" kicks almost exclusively for gigging for the last 20+ years. Rogers, Ludwig, now Gretsch. Mostly rock-centered playing (meaning rock, country, soul, funk, reggae, etc.) They have always done the job.
I understand preferring a larger size for feel reasons, but to say a 20" kick is merely a "jazz size" or can't cut it for rock is patently incorrect. Many rock players (including big names) have obviously used 20" kicks (and sometimes smaller) over the years.
There's really no such thing as a universal "rock kick" vs. "jazz kick". It's just a wooden cylinder. Use what works for you. Put the appropriate heads on, tune up, tune down, make it work.
Also, the existing legs should give enough lift if you want that. I usually have the front about a half-inch off the ground, and the batter side is inherently off the ground via the pedal bracket. Voila...it's "lifted".
I used a Pearl 20" for nearly 20 years (always on the ground w/out a riser) - mostly rock gigs in clubs/bars, etc., and never had an issue with it or a thought of going bigger. I did slap a DW sticker on the batter side to inspire me to one day be able to afford a DW kit.....
Ironically, the first DW kit I bought was a 10/13/16 bass which I sold to go bigger - 12/14/18 bass!
Lifts are silly. I'm not even using the supplied one with my 16" Breakbeats bass drum.
Your problem is the port and the SuperKick. It let's all the air out and makes the drum feel dead.
There should be zero problem with a 20" bass drum in 2019 other than, frankly, user error. PS3 batter, smooth white unported reso, and good tuning. Drum will sound huge.
I play 20" bass drums a lot ( Noble and Cooley; TRS) and have no issues with the sound of these regardless of the venue size.
I do two setups for my 20" bass drums.
On the Noble and Cooley - I use an Aquarian Superkick 1 batter and an Aquarian single ply resonant side with no port. I have a felt strip on the reso side and use a Danmar Square felt beater for most gigs. When I want more punch I swap the beater out for a Danmar JR Robinson Square red wood beater.
On the TRS - Batter head is a Remo PS3 and Resonant side is a single ply logo head with a port. There is an Evans EQ pillow inside and I use the Kelly SHU with a Sennheisser E 902 installed.
Neither of these bass drums are on a riser.
Hitting dead center batter with an offset ported reso ?
I used an un-ported Evans hydraulic reso. and mic'd from the batter side to an unexpectedly powerful and pleasing effect with a 20 .
Used a small pad between the pedal and head to control boominess .
Every 20" Rogers I've owned and gigged was double headed and I adjusted the sound with different beater heads. I never considered a lifter ... the tone is off center ,
DIXON; just can't go wrong with a Dixon Lift. You just mount it to the pedal and set the bass drum on it. How easy can that be? AND, you can pack it in with the pedal.
In the old days I mounted the pedal to the 20" Rogers bass rim and never had any problems; EXCEPT I was down on my knees during the install. I purchased a Dixon lift (+ or -) 5 years ago for a converted 16x18 Ludwig bass. Last month the first time I played my new 14x20" CM Ludwig, without thinking I used the lift and it worked fine. Using the 18" the beater is just above center, with the 20" the beater is dead center.
A quick note: Set down on your throne and get comfortable with the pedal; THEN set the bass on the lift.
As for now I'm using Coated PS3's on both sides without a port and no muffling. It sounds great; after I get used to the drum I may change to a ported batter head later and a towel inside, plus I may raise the beater just above dead center.
Saw Steve Gadd a month or so ago, and he had a 20" RC BD with a lift. Although I don't really see a need for one with a Rogers 20.
I use a Dixson on my 20. Love it
I use a 20 for 90% of what I do and have never used a lift or thought “hey a lift is going to make this drum play, feel or sound better”
My brother in law was opposite. He swore by kick lifts on 18 & 20’s, and endlessly fiddled with that, head configurations, tune bots, and stick tape, cymbal chains, and myriad of other gadgets that gave him reason to fuss with his gear. Not criticizing, he was a great musician - just a gear freak as well.
The only thing I do different if playing an 18, 20, 22 or 24 is adjust the beater rod up or down .5 / 1” accordingly.
Because they seem to be so intertwined, regarding the age old question of 20 / 22” / ported / unported drums....the 20” BD on my main kit is set up a remo PS3 batter and a remo PS3 fibreskyn reso. I love the sound of the drum “from behind the kit acoustically” un-ported / no laundry.
IME, sound techs prefer the port that allows them to isolate the BD signal with minimal bleed from other sources. So I cut the reso, installed the port, and loosely throw in a light towel to help cut down sustain and overtone.
Part of my job is to make their job easier so no biggie. The ported BD still sounds great and I always request a little kick in my stage monitor. The extra little oomph makes me feel like I’m playing my unported kick, sound man is good to go with a clean signal to fart around with, everyone is happy.
Lastly, re 20/22... I have never walked into a gig as a listener / audience member and thought “hey - that kick sounds sooo good, it’s got to be a 22” or a 20” drum. Ever.
So I think the endless 20/22 debate preference rests more with what the drummer hears from behind the kit - more so than what the audience hears in the house.
Whatever makes you feel most comfortable is always what’s best for you.
Using bass drums from 16" up to 28", I personally think larger is more fun for me, simply because you get that fillings-rattling beef like with a good P.A. but in person. If I was playing out (and I don't) and had a good P.A. available it would really be whichever kit felt good that day. And probably not the 28", because hustling one of those around might not feel good.
That being said, I know sound guys like them, but I've never played a ported head that didn't take all the 'bounce' out of the feel and most of the 'woof' out of the decay. I like the bounce and woof.
Interesting thread. I've used a 20" Rogers kick for most of my life. Never felt inclined to put a lift on it.
In the past I never liked a 20. I've had them all too Luddies, Gretsch, sling, Camco. Not for sound reasons, just for my own playing comfort.
But I love my Roger's Holiday 20. It does sound killer diller and the band loves it.
I’ve always enjoyed Rogers 20s also, Troy. Although my new/old Slingerland 20 is KILLING right now!
Well...maybe not! I said: AND, you can pack it in with the pedal. If you are using a formed pedal case I'm not so sure it will fit. I'm using a double pedal box style soft case for my single Tama IC pedal which gives me room for a number of other small items. So I apologize for the possible misrepresentation.
I use the Dixson with a few kits of mine and transport it simply by throwing it on the batter side of the bass drum and right into the bag. Since it's made of rubber, it won't scratch the head or drum/hoop.
The lift isn’t going to solve your problem, as you don’t like 20” bass drums. A 22” bass drum will, and I see you’re already looking for one....
Never have I personally used a riser on a 20" BD not necessay IMO
Never used a Lyft, but I haved used Uber.
The 20" bass drum with my '68 Rogers kit is just as big-sounding as my 22 and 24. I'm really impressed with the sound. Remo PS3 coated batter with an unported Aquarian Classic smooth white from Drum Art with our band name on it. It has a touch too much boom as-is, but when I install the INDe mount for the L-arm, I'll try a felt strip on the reso to tame it back a bit.