Vintage Rogers silver sparkle is glass, right???

Discussion in 'Vintage Venue' started by JazzDrumGuy, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    I am new to Rogers......pics online look like it's glass sparkle (lots of small triangular pieces) and not regular sparkle (small hexagons), right???

    I have a 12 & 20 I just scored (both on the way), but I've not seen one in person.

    What is the best source for the proper matching wrap? Would it be just silver glass glitter? My drums don't have gingered fading so that's not an issue.

    Also, oddly, if my hunch is right (it's glass), I noticed the reissued Dynasonic snares appear to have traditional silver sparkle - is that true? And why so, versus glass?
    Cost? Sparkle is thinner than glass so heads sit better? Other reason?

    Finally, did Rogers have silver sparkle (not glass) in their vintage drums? I am talking Cleveland/Dayton/Fullerton era.....thanks so much!
     
  2. rhythmace

    rhythmace Rhythmace

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    Per the Rogers Book, in the early 70s, all sparkles were discontinued except for silver, which became the non-glass type which was aluminum foil bits. Previously when Rogers used glass glitter in their sparkles the early smooth finishes were prone to fading. The later "orange peal" finish sparkles were less prone to fading. Unless you are matching with aluminum, I would go with glass glitter as I did when ordering silver inserts for a Cleveland bass drum. Ace
    (66).JPG
     
  3. Powertone

    Powertone DFO Veteran

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    Assuming you got a Clev or Dayton Beavertail Rogers, they were glass as is early Fullerton. Precision still offers Silver glass which is pretty darn close to the original and should blend well if you have very little darkening or yellowing. The only difference is the original glass finishes had what is referred to as an orange peel texture and the modern version is smooth on the outer surface of the wrap.

    I believe later Fullerton eventually went to regular silver sparkle like the other companies used. I am sure someone will chime in with an answer. I have no idea what repro dynas are finished with. They are of no interest to me.

    Congratulations on your acquisition. I am sure a FT will come along quickly. In fact there may be one on eBay right now. Silver glass is amazing if you can get it under the lights. Now to find a matching early 3 ply Powertone!
     
  4. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    Thanks, folks. The Holiday 12 is orig. silver wrap, Dayton paper label, beaver lugs, with speckled inside and looks great. The Holiday 20 bass is orig. silver wrap, speckled inside, beaver lugs and Fullerton paper label, and looks great. The only thing missing is the top tom mount.

    I did find an original 16 FT Powertone - Dayton paper label, speckled inside, beaver lugs - but it needs to be rewrapped. It is missing the script logo & bottom hoop. I saw the FT on eBay but the one I got was way less priced.

    I also have a bare snare shell (5x14, Banner model, I think 6 ply, grey inside, Cleveland paper label) that I will convert to a "Powertone" 8 lug snare using all parts off an original Powertone COB snare I also picked up.

    I don't know the difference between Powertone and Holiday toms. I know the Banner is 6 center lugs vs. the Luxor being 6 "regular" lugs, but again, I am a Rogers virgin at this point.

    I do appreciate all the info and the pics, too...thanks!
     
  5. Rich K.

    Rich K. DFO Master

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    From the batches I've seen, the new silver glitter seems whiter than the original. The regular sparkle's color I think is closer to the original, but of course the sparkles look different. You may want to search for an original if you can be patient.
     
  6. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    Well there are a few originals out there on eBay for $550 and $750 - I won't pay that much for just a 16FT. I did score a wonderful original FT (other than missing script logo and wrap!) for much less and even sending it to Precision to apply a glass glitter will get me just 1/2 way to the others........unless I can just find a 16" shell only in silver....
     
  7. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    I just found a sold listing on Reverb for a 16FT in silver sparkle - Dayton label, speckled interior - but a regular sparkle NOT a glass sparkle......very interesting. Serial # on it was 90K. Mine is a Powertone Dayton with 20K #......
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  8. levelpebble

    levelpebble Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the difference between Powertone and Holiday toms. I know the Banner is 6 center lugs vs. the Luxor being 6 "regular" lugs, but again, I am a Rogers virgin at this point.
    I think the only difference for toms and bass is timing - somewhere in the mid/late 60's the 'Holiday' marketing scheme gave way to 'Powertone' exclusively. Same drums. Maybe even timed to the California move? Remember, you can't trust Rogers tags to be truly definitive with respect to your drum make-up and manufacturing date. Count the plys, look at the screw/bolt heads, look at the lug inserts, look at the felt.
     
  9. lcondo123

    lcondo123 Well-Known Member

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    Rogers changed the name of their flagship drums after they moved to Fullerton. The "Holiday" drums got renamed "Power Tone", and the "Powertone" snare was replaced with the "Super Ten." It's confusing, but the snares were "Powertone" while the drums were "Power Tone"!

    As long as you find a FT with the correct silver glass glitter that isn't too terribly faded, you should be good to go with having the drums match. Precision's silver glass glitter is almost identical to Rogers' original wrap - minus the surface texture, as mentioned above. The glitter bits are slightly bigger in Precision's wrap, but that's noticeable only if you're ~6 inches from the drum doing a side-by-side.

    The Banner snare is a student model, beginner's snare with the six center lugs. Are you planning on drilling holes into the shell to get the correct lugs/butt plate/throwoff system mounted?

    Good luck on getting the drums together! Silver sparkle Rogers is my weakness, they look spectacular under stage lights!

    20180805195756_IMG_5632.jpg IMG_2597.jpg
     
  10. rhythmace

    rhythmace Rhythmace

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    BTW, Precision sent me samples of both glass glitter and non glass to compare. Ace
     
  11. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    Lcondo - wow! Nice pics.....

    I have sourced some silver glass glitter wrap. As close as it may be in color (and it lacks the texture), that's gonna be good enough for me! As for the snare, yes. I plan on filling the 6 single lug holes, the butt and throw holes, and then having it re-drilled for 8 beaver vintage snare lugs, vintage clock/butt, and vintage tall boy snare hoops. It will be a clone for sure, but much cheaper than a real wood PT snare........

    Oddly one of the silver 16 FT's on eBay is silver sparkle, not silver glass. It won't match my 12/20 and I must say I do prefer the glass look for sure.....I assume there won't be any head fitting issues using the thicker glass wrap?
     
  12. lcondo123

    lcondo123 Well-Known Member

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    RE: issues fitting - no sir! Rogers shells were never oversized (well, the Jasper shells from 1957-1961 are a little snug), but the Keller shells with glass glitter never had any issues! Whatever heads you choose should float nice and freely on your drums.

    Ever since I dove into the world of glass glitter, I can't imagine having a kit with regular sparkle. I see any of the mid 60's Luddys onward with the plastic sparkle and I can't help but think it looks cheesy compared to glass glitter. Just compare a Ludwig Gold Sparkle kit with a Rogers Gold Sparkle... the difference is shattering!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. BrianOwens

    BrianOwens Drumsforever

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    Silver sparkle is a versatile color that always looks good at any venue.
     
  14. K.O.

    K.O. DFO Master

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    I agree that the modern stuff is a bit too "white" compared to the original. Maybe they've fixed that by now but I know that a tom I have wrapped in modern silver glass glitter is more white than my vintage drums. The regular silver sparkle is silver by virtue of the color of the aluminum flakes inside showing through the clear (rather than tinted as on the colored sparkles) outer layer.

    Remember that back in the day there was no distinction made between the two types and they were all just sparkles. At that time there were more than one company making drum wrap and it appears that different companies used different production methods, some choosing glass as their sparkling medium and some using metal flakes. What each drum company used probably was due to who they chose as their supplier (based on price, service, etc.) rather than a choice of one sparkling medium over another (Ie: Rogers and Gretsch had glass glitter wraps due to where they bought their wraps, not because they necessarily preferred that type over the other). Some companies (Ludwig) used both types through the years and it would appear that was due to changing suppliers.

    The differentiation between the two types is a relatively recent development from the 1990s when Delmar re-introduced the glass based wraps and needed to call attention to the difference. Prior to that drummers no doubt noticed that there were two different types of reflective mediums in use but they were still all called "sparkles".
     
  15. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    I saw a Holiday drum with Cleveland tag and speckled interior for sale.....I thought speckled interior started after CBS bought them and moved them to Dayton and once the old shell stock finished????? Boy do I dislike not knowing! Thanks.

    My 12 is here but at the PO needing a signature. The bass is en route as is the FT.......
     
  16. jptrickster

    jptrickster DFO Master

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    005.JPG They could have found an old box or a few stray Cleve labels in the factory or assembly warehouse, they didn't throw anything away back then, it got used up. You'll often see model names crossed out with marker and correct model names handwritten. I'd be curious to see the serial number, that could add to the story. There's also a possibility that the label was added later by whomever. These labels will come off intact using the proper technique.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  17. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    So I got my 12" - it is pretty clean. 1 tall boy hoop (other is Taiwan which I knew going in). What is odd is that, like in the gold kit above, the muffler is on the outside of the drum (counterclockwise - mount, logo, muffler) - just weird. Having played Gretsch all this time, as well as Slingy/Ludwig, all of which have mufflers within reach when playing, this is just a funky setup - why??? Bass comes today and the FT on Friday.
     
  18. james_c_marks

    james_c_marks Member

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    image.jpg
    I joined the Rogers Silver (Glass) Sparkle Team myself, by converting these old 60s Yorktown Marching Drums into a drumset. 14x10, 15x12, 28x10.

    These thin shells are great!

    Vintage Emperors top & bottom
     
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  19. Rich K.

    Rich K. DFO Master

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    Could likely be the 2nd of a twin 12" set.
     
  20. JazzDrumGuy

    JazzDrumGuy DFO Master

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    Interesting....so the gold one pictured above is also a twin? The placement of the mount/logo/muffler is identical.

    If mine was a twin, unless it was mounted upside down, the logo would be facing inward? That doesn't make sense to me.......

    The bass came - looks good. I don't have time to inspect/play it as trick or treating calls......
     

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