Yamaha recording custom early 80's.

Discussion in 'Vintage Venue' started by verminator, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    This kit simply looked to good to pass up. The badges date it to December of 1982. I absolutely love the finish (stage white) and dig the sizes (9x10, 9x12, 14x14 and 16x20 and 8x14 snare). I cannot confirm the sizes as the seller did not seem precise. I am most excited about the snare. Do any of you have experience with this era of the Recording Customs? I have a set of the 9000 series from around 78. Are these the same shells? I can tell that the lugs are different on my two kits. The only downer that I am aware of is kind of a good thing for me. The floor tom was originally a floater and the last owner put floor tom legs on it. Can't wait to get them, and can't wait to play them at the next rehearsal.
     

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  2. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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    If they're '80s, it would most likely be 8x10 and 8x12. At that time, Yamaha only offered 8x12 (standard/traditional), and 10x12 (power) toms. The 9x12 size didn't really become a thing until DW came out with their FAST toms in the early-mid 90s. Then everybody else followed suit. And if the 14" was originally a rack tom (guessing that's what you mean by 'floater'), it would've been a 12x14 (Yamaha only offered 10x14 and 12x14 mounted toms, AFAIK). I've only ever seen the 14x14 size with legs... Unless it was some kind of custom order perhaps? If it's a 14x14 with a tom mount and ft leg mounts, maybe the tom mount is the later addition, and the leg mounts are original. I'm thinking the owner measured them with the hoops on. I've come across this SOOOOO many times. And if that's the case, that bass drum could be 14x20. I could be wrong about the sizes. But based on my own personal knowledge, I don't think I am.

    I can't answer your question about the shells.
     
  3. Geardaddy

    Geardaddy Very well Known Member

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    Those are great drums and great sizes. All birch shells. Probably different shells from your 1978 kit. They look to be in very good shape. The snare drum might be slightly newer because they didn't offer an 8x14 wood shell in 82. I used to own one that I bought around 1985. It was a killer sounding snare. also, from your picture, the badge grommet on the bass drum is not original.
     
  4. Tama CW

    Tama CW Well-Known Member

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    The 9000 series from 1978 would likely be the made in Taiwan ROC 9000D....all birch shells. If 9000GA they are a birch/mahogany mixed ply and not as desirable...though still sound great. Your 1982 kit sits within the most cherished of RC's having the painted and more rounded bearing edges (1982-1983). By around 1984 or so they had changed the bearing edges and left them unpainted through the 1980's and longer. I had a black lacquer group of Recording Artist (RA) toms dated 1982/83 that were std sizes of 13x9, 14x10, and 15x12. Toms worth around $225-$300 per drum depending on condition. Kick drum and snare worth more. The 8" deep snare from that era is well cherished.

    I do note that the wing bolts on top of the rack tom mounts are the later style 1990's bolts. The 1980's should have the classic 'W' shape. It's possible that entire rack tom mount assembly is a later vintage. And the photo of the badge shown has had the grommet replaced....it's way too thick. So I'd be a little curious as to why that was done.

    BD920RA kick drum badge confirms it's a scarce 20"....cool! And that's not seen very often from that era. Most are 22-24". So that could be smaller jazz sized kit. And as said earlier the power/force size rack tom in that era would be 14x12. The badge on it will be either FT914RA or TT914RA....which will tell you if it were born as a floor tom or tom tom. Yamaha has a vintage guide where you can plug in the model number and it usually spits out the size, and shell type. I see a lot more 10x10's from that era.

    They look to me to be 10x10, 12x8, 14x12 and 20x14. In looking at your photo enlarged a bit....you can make out a tom mount (and leg mounts) on that 14 in drum. So it's been altered one way or the other. The tom mount on the 14 in seems placed a bit high for what I'm used to seeing. The badge will solve the mystery.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  5. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    Great observations. I cannot think of any reason to replace the badge and grommet. They are shipped so I’ll have to wait to get them. I don’t mind an updated tom mounting system as long as it did not create extra holes. I’ve switched from optimist to pessimist on this one especially since they are from G C. Six of my last purchases there have been returns. Now that I am looking at this kit more objectively, it has a power tom with a standard Tom, a hanger changed into a floor tom (or vice versa), a bass Drum with a replaced grommet and more modern tom system and a snare drum that is out of place time wise and size wise. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the badges show the tour series LOL
     
  6. Castnblast

    Castnblast Very well Known Member

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    Is the 10" tom the same height as the 12, and the snare?
    The 10 looks to be 9" - maybe 10" deep.

    Also, it looks like the toms have cast hoops rather than triple flange.

    I don't recall that being an option back in the day....?


    Nice drums!
     
  7. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    They are triple flange hoops. Not the diecast model. The pic on my phone blows up to great detail. I can't get it to do the same here.
     
  8. Tama CW

    Tama CW Well-Known Member

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    There won't be any 8000 drums in that kit as they all have the high tension RC lugs. No other Yamaha's in the 80's got them. One cool thing about these drums, especially the 1982/83 versions is that they are easily partable....usually for more money. It was common back then for a 10x10 to be married with a 12x8...even if 10x10 with 12x10 was probably more common. If the drums are all grouped from 1982-1983 that's great. If that was truly a rare 14x14 tom in that kit (worth $400-$600), you would think even GC would have known to part that out separately, or ask an arm and a leg for the kit.

    And the rack tom hardware is a non issue. Both 1980 and 1990 versions are worth about the same $$. You can find a 1980's mount easy enough and then sell off the later version. The cymbal stand attachment is a nice plus and that does have the earlier version of wing bolts. These early RC kits are valued more by the sum of their parts. From the photo the snare doesn't look as deep as the 12x8 rack tom....it might well be a 14x6.5 snare. Though, photos can be deceiving.

    When buying 1977 and later Yamaha's always ask for the model and serial numbers....they identify the drum size/depth as well as month/yr manufacture. It doesn't get any easier than that. Many or even most sellers don't know how to read the badges.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  9. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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    You may be the only drummer I've met who thinks the people at GC have any clue at all what's going on, hahaha.

    Also, if that is a 14x14 with an added tom bracket, that bracket will definitely affect the value. Especially if it's in a non-factory position.
     
  10. Tama CW

    Tama CW Well-Known Member

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    GC has access to information and expertise from hundreds of stores across the country, including any item they ever sold, not to mention numerous reps across the country who would know how to value and price a YRC kit. It wouldn't surprise me if all their decent quality used vintage gear all has to go through their corporate headquarters for buying/selling price approval. It only makes sense.

    For Vintage gear we have a dedicated group of Vintage experts who are on-duty during all Guitar Center open hours to assist in evaluations.

    For the past year I've been watching all the vintage Tama, Yamaha drums and top quality used Paiste cymbals coming through the half dozen to dozen GC stores in my region...and have yet to see anything priced at such a great deal that I felt compelled to run out and buy the item instantly. Apparently, whatever system GC employs, items are priced strong enough to keep bargain hunting at a bare minimum. For several months I was watching a pretty nice late 80's Cobalt Blue Tour Custom kit out of Lexington, KY. While it was a fair deal, it still took months to move it out of inventory. So from my experiences, the staff of GC which prices their used gear seems to have a pretty good handle on things. Can't say the same for Ebay sellers though, even ones who consider themselves professional percussion sellers.

    No one here stated that a modified 14x14 floor tom would be worth the same money as a fully original one. It goes w/o saying that any modifications to the shell of a YRC will be a deduction, usually a significant one. And yes, even GC would know that a pro-quality 14X14 1980's floor tom, from ANY major maker, is worth serious money. That's like drumming 101. You can also bet that the store selling this kit knew exactly what model/style of 14 inch tom they were selling....and any major mods to it. I wouldn't judge their entire system based on your personal experiences when buying routine stuff at your local store. I'm sure my local guys probably can't decipher a vintage YRC kit.....but you can bet they know where to go to find out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  11. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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    Your Guitar Center experience has been far different from mine (and a lot of others). I've seen plenty of items priced too high, priced too low (I personally bought a Paiste Sound Formula ride with a faded logo for $70, and a '60s Ludwig Acro - complete, and in awesome condition for $50), incorrect sizes listed, incorrect series listed, claims of "excellent condition" when the item is falling apart, etc... And as far as in the actual stores, maybe the GCs where you live are different. But the ones around me are staffed primarily by "salesmen", not people who are actually knowledgeable about the gear (there are some good eggs though).
     
  12. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    Six of my last eight Guitar Center purchases were either returns or cancellations. The main problem is that they list items on the used website without pictures and vague descriptions. For example, Ludwig early 70's drum set in excellent condition. Blue Sparkle. 22, 13,16. $699.
    I bite because I love Ludwig especially the early 70's. When the store finally opens, I get hold of someone and ask for some pics. A few hours go by and I still don't have the pics. I call back and this time get someone to actually look at the drum while I am on the phone (pics are still coming right?). I can confirm blue olive badges. I ask about re-enforcement rings and get a timid "I think I see what you are talking about." Thanks for your time I'll look forward to the pics. Before any pics show, I get an email showing that the drums have shipped. Oh well, no pics needed at this point.
    When the kit finally came, it was an 80's kit with modular hardware re-wrapped in blue sparkle. The rack tom was a deep 14 inch tom. The hoops were generic on on and on.
    Here are my recent guitar center experiences:
    Black beauty that was not a black beauty.
    Gretsch kit listed in excellent shape that had all sonor replacement tom mounts, and floor tom legs.
    Early 70's Rogers kit that was a re-wrap and had just about everything unoriginal (see Rogers post from a few days ago).
    Tama Starclassic BB that ended up being a Silver Star (this one just killed me lol)
    "Vintage 1973 Slingerland green sparkle drum set" that ended up being an early 80's kit. Probably a re-wrap but I was able to stop this one before it was delivered to me.
    An acrolite that was not an acorlite (or blackrolite for that matter).
    a 2000's Gretsch USA kit that actually ended up being a 70's kit (which I would be cool with) except it was completely cashed and with replacement tom mounts, re finish etc.

    I do like Guitar Center for the hunt and the occasional good deal, but they are absolutely incompetent when it comes to drum gear. It is called Guitar Center and not Drum Center.
     
  13. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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  14. Tama CW

    Tama CW Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can't say much about them overstating what items they have. They may be acting "clueless" at some stores....but maybe it's a ploy. They get more money for these items than they should....which is the point of retail. The point of retail is....to sell for retail....or even more. Though hopefully not at the expense of losing your customers for good. I've been in the collectibles fields for 45 years and know all the tricks quite well. Ironically, it's the retailers/dealers who push things a bit too far that seem to do the best in this business....while those who are totally honest tend to go by the wayside. Dealers offering things that up front look to be bargains (or too good to be true) usually survive. Though when you get that item, it's usually nowhere near what you were expecting. From what I see by both of your experiences is that GC asks too much, for too little...and apparently that works for them....and most other large collectibles retailers. They would not still be in business if they bought mint 1970's re-ring Slingerlands for strong wholesale money, fixed all the incorrect or missing items, and sold them for a 10% profit. Selling "problem" items without mentioning them is one of the "secrets" of retailing collectibles. Those that can do it, and still maintain their customer base, thrive.

    Now if you describe all the faults and problems with your drum kits and cymbals...like I do...most buyers will ignore you and seek out those others that say their lesser kits are problem free and mint. That's what keeps the retailers humming. Their gear is always mint and problem free. If had 6 negative experiences with a retailer, I wouldn't be going back unless they made all those previous transactions right.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  15. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between leaving out a couple details/not being entirely forthright, and straight up lying or having no clue about what you're selling. I think you are giving the GC folks FAR too much credit.
     
  16. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    I do feel compelled to say that Guitar Center has a generous return policy and they are very honorable.
     
  17. cutaway79

    cutaway79 Well-Known Member

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    That may be. But it's still a hassle to go through the whole process of ordering, picking up/receiving, the disappointment of finding out it's junk, repackaging the disappointing item, taking it back to the store, and going through the return process, and then waiting for the replacement to arrive. I had to do this with a cymbal recently (which they screwed up on TWICE). No, it's not the end of the world, and I'm glad that at least it wasn't a complete drum set. But it's way more hassle than I was counting on when I placed my order. I much prefer a retailer where I don't have to rely so heavily on their awesome return policy. I'd rather they just get it right.
     
  18. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    Can't disagree with anything you said. Their lack of drum knowledge makes it difficult especially when they rarely have a drum rep in the store. If they only posted pics when items are listed. That would solve just about everything. If a used item pops up for a 6.5x14 Rogers Dynasonic for $175 most of here would probably buy it immediately even if there is not a picture associated with the ad. When the item turns out to be a 6.5x14 1990's Rogers pos snare, we are let down and have to wait for the monies to go back to our credit card/debit card (which is a whole other issue).
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  19. Tama CW

    Tama CW Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can understand all that. So for those reasons I don't order in the "blind" from GC. I've only made a trip down to my local store once and was disappointed in the item...which had not been photographed...and described as "excellent." Paiste 404 hats at $99. Upon seeing the 1st cymbal in hand, I was dazzled how new they were...beautiful. I was getting ready to hand the cash over.....until a few seconds later I saw a crimp/cut/kink in the edge of the other cymbal. A killer. Rather than excellent, these were damaged, not even worth $50 to me. So being 0 for 1....I will be very careful in the future so I don't end up 0 for 2. No way should even a guitar guy not have been able to notice such a raised crack on a 100% brilliant cymbal.
     
  20. verminator

    verminator Very well Known Member

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    I got the drums and I must say that I am pleasantly surprised. The sizes are 14x20, 8x10, 8x12 and yesss! 14x14 floor tom. The snare is a 8x14. The badges are all late 82 and early 83. The bass drum badge and grommet mystery has been solved. The original is still intact and a tightening bolt sits on top that houses a bass drum mic chord. No problem, no mods except the hanging tom mount added on the floor tom unless it is factory.
     

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