Duluth Brass Manufacturing Redux.

[Ptrick]

I can only compare to a Tama reissue. I have Duluth aluminum bronze and treebronze. I would not be able to tell the difference between the alloys in a blindfold test between the two. I think shell thickness, edges, beds, number of lugs, type of hoops all have a far greater influence on the sound than the alloy of bronze.

Compared to the Tama reissue,the Duluth’s feel more alive, more zing, more bottom. A 3 dimensional sound, where the Tama was a bit cold sounding.

I do have a Savage Tama replica in the works, 3mm shell with Mastercraft hardware and beds, and we’ll see what the differences are. I’m betting the hardware buildup has more to do with the sound changes.

I also have owned a Gretsch phosphor bronze 5 mm, and a Crush 3 mm phosphor bronze cast drum. Both sounded similar to the Duluth’s when set up the same, with the Duluth’s having a bit more of a 3 dimensional sound.

I have a B14 Drum also in order from Duluth. That’s the bell bronze standard in a lot of Europe, and what Oriollo uses. That’s as high a tin content as I want to go. Looking at all the cracked B20 N&C Zildjian snares, and word from John at Duluth on the brittle nature of that alloy, I don’t want to risk it.

I haven’t met a person that has played the treebronze and not been thrilled. If this is your first build, that’s where I’d start.

 

[marcpaganiphotography]

After doing tons of research and listening to at least 25 cast bronze snares online, I've decided to pull the trigger and go with Duluth's 907 (bell bronze 90% copper, 10% tin) shell in 7.5x14 and cast bronze hoops. I am definitely hoping to make this a unique drum. I don't think I want to do patina or polishing, because I love the look of that brushed raw bronze, BUT I do want to offset it with black nickel plated hardware (or polished bronze or brushed aluminum). I'm open to suggestions on where to find truly unique lugs and beautifully sculpted throwoff/buttplates. I've attached a photo John from Duluth sent me that has some cool lugs...anyone know where those came from? Lastly, I'm looking for some input as to shell thickness. I know there's a lot of debate about this. I want a crisp pop with the classic bell bronze ring, but also want a lot of depth and bottom end fatness. Standard shell thickness is 4.7mm for Duluth, but I can go anywhere between 3-5mm at the same price. Also considering Duluth's re-rings (see attached pics). Anyone have any experience with 5mm to 3mm back to 5mm re-rings? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ptrick]

After doing tons of research and listening to at least 25 cast bronze snares online, I've decided to pull the trigger and go with Duluth's 907 (bell bronze 90% copper, 10% tin) shell in 7.5x14 and cast bronze hoops. I am definitely hoping to make this a unique drum. I don't think I want to do patina or polishing, because I love the look of that brushed raw bronze, BUT I do want to offset it with black nickel plated hardware (or polished bronze or brushed aluminum). I'm open to suggestions on where to find truly unique lugs and beautifully sculpted throwoff/buttplates. I've attached a photo John from Duluth sent me that has some cool lugs...anyone know where those came from? Lastly, I'm looking for some input as to shell thickness. I know there's a lot of debate about this. I want a crisp pop with the classic bell bronze ring, but also want a lot of depth and bottom end fatness. Standard shell thickness is 4.7mm for Duluth, but I can go anywhere between 3-5mm at the same price. Also considering Duluth's re-rings (see attached pics). Anyone have any experience with 5mm to 3mm back to 5mm re-rings? Thanks in advance.

First off, congratulations on getting your first build going. You will not be disappointed! I’ll do my best to answer your questions (I’m on build #6 currently, and have owned several other brands cast bronze snares).

The treebronze 907 alloy is a great place to start. I like the size you’re going with too.

Three of my current Duluth’s have black hardware (two builds in progress, other with gold Gretsch lugs). Two with raw bronze shells, another with a forced patina on shell and lugs, last drum has a cool chemical bath induced patina. I’ll attach pics below. I got my lugs from drumfactorydirect.com , which is where I believe the lugs you posted are from. Another good option for lugs are Champagne lugs or Allstar Drumworks.

I have 3 with the standard 4.7 thickness shell. I love them. The best of them is the Savage drums 14x8. The 6.5 can do anything, and a 13x6.5 that just screams. I also have a 14x5.5 3mm shell that does sound different. Less smack, more low end.

One of my currently in process builds will be a 14x7.25 with 5mm edges and 3 mm body (reinforcement ring style). I have a couple other cast steel snares with similar specs, and to my ear, this is the best sound. Has the attack of the thicker shell with the low end of the 3mm. Unfortunately I won’t have my upcoming Duluth one to compare directly for a few weeks.

Also, consider joining the Facebook group “Custom Bronze Snare Builds”. It’s run by fellow DFO’er polycrescendo and myself.

Also, hit me up on PM’s if you have any specific questions.

 

[marcpaganiphotography]

First off, congratulations on getting your first build going. You will not be disappointed! I’ll do my best to answer your questions (I’m on build #6 currently, and have owned several other brands cast bronze snares).

The treebronze 907 alloy is a great place to start. I like the size you’re going with too.

Three of my current Duluth’s have black hardware (two builds in progress, other with gold Gretsch lugs). Two with raw bronze shells, another with a forced patina on shell and lugs, last drum has a cool chemical bath induced patina. I’ll attach pics below. I got my lugs from drumfactorydirect.com , which is where I believe the lugs you posted are from. Another good option for lugs are Champagne lugs or Allstar Drumworks.

I have 3 with the standard 4.7 thickness shell. I love them. The best of them is the Savage drums 14x8. The 6.5 can do anything, and a 13x6.5 that just screams. I also have a 14x5.5 3mm shell that does sound different. Less smack, more low end.

One of my currently in process builds will be a 14x7.25 with 5mm edges and 3 mm body (reinforcement ring style). I have a couple other cast steel snares with similar specs, and to my ear, this is the best sound. Has the attack of the thicker shell with the low end of the 3mm. Unfortunately I won’t have my upcoming Duluth one to compare directly for a few weeks.

Also, consider joining the Facebook group “Custom Bronze Snare Builds”. It’s run by fellow DFO’er polycrescendo and myself.

Also, hit me up on PM’s if you have any specific questions. View attachment 455140View attachment 455141View attachment 455142View attachment 455143View attachment 455144View attachment 455145

Thanks so much!! Great info that confirmed what I already suspected about the re-ring option. I did see those lugs on DFD after John at Duluth sent me more info. I’m also looking at lugs from Sweet Spot and Black Swamp. I am glad to see your black hardware...confirms what I thought about offsetting the bronze color. As for patina, I was thinking not, but yours looks really cool. I can do that down the road.

 

[Johnnythunder]

Congats on ordering a Duluth snare, I just have the one snare 14x8 4.7mm. I got to tell ya you won't be disappointed! The thing is a cannon. I went with these lugs which I think go pretty well with it. (From HHG drums)

 

[marcpaganiphotography]

Congats on ordering a Duluth snare, I just have the one snare 14x8 4.7mm. I got to tell ya you won't be disappointed! The thing is a cannon. I went with these lugs which I think go pretty well with it. (From HHG drums)

Looks great! Did you have the Trick throwoff specially plated, or did it come like that?

 

[Johnnythunder]

It came that way, found it on Reverb. (just bought another one for a different build)

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

So in the process of ordering a custom shell from John. I want to have the shell and hoops plated (black for the shell and chrome for the hoops) as I have bad experiences with powder coating.

Does anyone where these can be plated, close to Duluth?

 

[Ptrick]

So in the process of ordering a custom shell from John. I want to have the shell and hoops plated (black for the shell and chrome for the hoops) as I have bad experiences with powder coating.

Does anyone where these can be plated, close to Duluth?

I haven’t seen anyone chrome plate bronze hoops, but I’m sure a plating company could advise you. Unfortunately I don’t know of any other than Southern California (La Habra Plating).

I have seen one shell done in black by Justin Nebe at Nebe drums on Instagram. I loved the look so much, I’m having him do a shell for me now.

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

I haven’t seen anyone chrome plate bronze hoops, but I’m sure a plating company could advise you. Unfortunately I don’t know of any other than Southern California (La Habra Plating).

I have seen one shell done in black by Justin Nebe at Nebe drums on Instagram. I loved the look so much, I’m having him do a shell for me now.

View attachment 455204View attachment 455205

Thanks!

I have send them a reply

 

[cruddola]

I spoke with the owner of Duluth Brass Manufacturing, John Holt, today about the possibility of having a cast bronze snare shell made. He was very receptive to the idea. Adam Holt no longer works for the company, that is all I know about that. John's instructions to me were to send the exact specs for the shell you want to them by email and they will get back to you with a quote. Here is part of his response to me from a follow up email which gives some context:


"We’ve found that making the drums out of our aluminum bronze has had the best success as far as hit rate on our castings (less pieces of scrap mean faster production) and machinability (our CNC lathe programs are set for aluminum bronze and it’s a metal we work with on a regular basis). These produce a drum with a wonderful sound. We are able to machine the drum shell, drill the necessary holes for part installation and also machine the snare beds. We also make the hoops for the top and bottom of the drum, along with the necessary milling for install. We don’t do any of the finishing/installing because, honestly, we’re just a machine shop.

While we have made drums out of a different materials we found that it was very difficult to pour (we lost half of all castings before even getting to a lathe for machining due to holes in the casting) and to machine (half of the castings that made it through the pouring process had what could only be described as a “cloudy” finish). For that reason, we would recommend aluminum bronze. It doesn’t mean we can’t visit the idea later on, let’s just establish a relationship first.

Thanks again, John"

I think that this is an exciting possibility considering the almost complete lack of a producer for shells like this. Hopefully this thread will be filled in the future with pictures of cast bronze snare drums from Duluth.

Here is the email address to send your requests to: sales@duluthbrass.com

Here is some information I got of the net about Aluminum Bronze: Aluminium bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Aluminium bronzes' resistance to corrosion results from the aluminium in the alloys, which reacts with atmospheric oxygen to form a thin, tough surface layer of alumina (aluminium oxide) which acts as a barrier to corrosion of the copper-rich alloy. The addition of tin can improve corrosion resistance.[1]
Another notable property of aluminium bronzes are their biostatic effects. The copper component of the alloy prevents colonization by marine organisms including algae, lichens, barnacles, and mussels, and therefore can be preferable to stainless steel or other non-cupric alloys in applications where such colonization would be unwanted.
Aluminium bronzes tend to have a golden color.

My brother has a threesome of Tama's Bell Brass snares in three sizes. Heavy as Hell and beautiful! Two are still in the box!

 

[phdamage]

just got my Duluth a couple weeks ago. John was great to deal with - very responsive and packed this very well. Treebronze in I think 4.7mm thick (whatever their standard is), the cast bronze hoops, in 7x14" size. loving it so far. still tinkering with tuning but it might be my new favorite. I've only played a 5" deep Tama Bell Brass and I didn't love it, though I'm biased against snares shallower than 6.5"

 

[polycrescendo]

This is a work in progress that I never thought I'd be able to start. Here are the first toms to leave the Duluth factory since the legendary Paiste kits were produced. John Holt is making my dreams come true and I can't explain how happy I am to be able to get my hands on these beauties. Also I'd like to publicly thank forum member Nacci for a multitude of reasons regarding Duluth and for selling the Ocheltree lugs to me. Also thanks to Ptrick for the positive reinforcement (peer pressure) on getting this ball rolling.
Specs are: 8x6 10x6 12x6 all 3mm straight wall with sharp 45 degree bearing edges
I went with one 1/2" port hole per tom. I wanted to get my toms as low as possible so I went with short toms. I've only played them for about an hour so far but they are full sounding and loud. They tune up like a dream and they have an attitude that I've never experienced with tom toms before. I'll report back with video clips as soon as I am able.

 

[Nacci]

This is a work in progress that I never thought I'd be able to start. Here are the first toms to leave the Duluth factory since the legendary Paiste kits were produced. John Holt is making my dreams come true and I can't explain how happy I am to be able to get my hands on these beauties. Also I'd like to publicly thank forum member Nacci for a multitude of reasons regarding Duluth and for selling the Ocheltree lugs to me. Also thanks to Ptrick for the positive reinforcement (peer pressure) on getting this ball rolling.
Specs are: 8x6 10x6 12x6 all 3mm straight wall with sharp 45 degree bearing edges
I went with one 1/2" port hole per tom. I wanted to get my toms as low as possible so I went with short toms. I've only played them for about an hour so far but they are full sounding and loud. They tune up like a dream and they have an attitude that I've never experienced with tom toms before. I'll report back with video clips as soon as I am able.
View attachment 456458View attachment 456459View attachment 456460View attachment 456461View attachment 456462View attachment 456463View attachment 456465View attachment 456466View attachment 456467

Wow, that is Gangsta’

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

From the bronze FB group.

I really enjoyed being included in this group and hope you are all enjoying everything we've been producing. However I think it's best that I leave the group as the information that I've offered to some of my customers has caused arguments that have negatively affected people that I consider friends as well as customers. I won't call out names as the people know who they are, but I ask forgiveness from the people that have been negatively affected. I'm going back to work tomorrow and am going to take a long look whether continuing to make drum shells is worth continuing.

That doesn’t sound good. At all. The downside of social media?

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

An update.

Thank you, everyone, for the replies and personal messages. I'm sure I was just a little pissed at the time I wrote the original message. I try to usually take some time before posting or commenting to allow myself to get my thoughts together properly and it was probably just because this is the only full day per week that I get to spend with my daughter (not separated, just working all the time) that I fired without aiming first.

We'll definitely still be making our shells and hoops going forward. If I didn't love making them, why would I continue staying late and on weekends to work on them? My apologies for the grenade I dropped on the group earlier.

 

[#Gerard]

I'm so relieved John Holt decided to continue making shells!

Thanks John!

I wish you can expand your business to also include custom hardware!

Gerard

 

[fuzzbomb]

Does anyone happen to know if John at Cherry Hill still does orders for just lugs and tension rods?

 

[Johnnythunder]

He may now, When I was looking for lugs, I contacted him twice. He asked what I was looking for and after I told him I was looking for lugs there was no further response.
You could try Justin @ Nebedrums. He's got some cool looking lugs an tension rods

 

[fuzzbomb]

Thanks! I'll check out Nebedrums, and earlier in the thread someone mentioned Mattoon so I'm going to shoot them an email as well.