Finally, Istanbul Agop released the... Traditional Jazz Series!

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They are super cool. Just got them in yesterday and put like an hour on them, so definitely still in the honeymoon period. They have more volume on tap and sustain then most of my current cymbals, which is welcome. Should be fun to run with them for a bit.
 
Acidwash said:
They are super cool. Just got them in yesterday and put like an hour on them, so definitely still in the honeymoon period. They have more volume on tap and sustain then most of my current cymbals, which is welcome. Should be fun to run with them for a bit.
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Acidwash said:
They are super cool. Just got them in yesterday and put like an hour on them, so definitely still in the honeymoon period. They have more volume on tap and sustain then most of my current cymbals, which is welcome. Should be fun to run with them for a bit.
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Looking forward hearing your thoughts after a playing them a bit.

Watching the videos available on YouTube and Instagram, they do seem to have a bit more sustain, yet a nice stick definition.

My "fear" about them is that they end up in the "luxury version of" x (x being a normal Traditional/Original/Dark Ride). And that's not a bad thing - I could definitely live with that, where some tape and patina would take care of any excessiveness.
 
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JDA said:
I don't hear "Stage-time" (You should (you/we're old enough) to know what I mean Hsosdrum) in the fella's playing.
Call it "dance-floor" time if you want..

I'm sorry. That Day and Age may be over but I won't it let go down without some screaming : D
He barely finished any sentences and developed fewer

He didn't tell a story.
(how's about that?..}
He didn't tell me a story..

ps. contrarian (how about stickler/)
never get rid of the contrarian
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Since you're often quite critical and require very specific "hoops to be jumped through" by other players to please you, not mention how demanding you are about sound, it would absolutely wonderful if you let us all hear how it's really done. By you I mean.
Doesn't need to be a hifi recording. But please, teach us. Let us enjoy your playing. B)
 
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owr said:
Hey, Ive seen Carter perform live in the flesh 1 more time than I've seen you Joe. All the old cats hating on CM.
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This old (72 year old) cat thinks CM is one of the greatest drummers of his generation. I learn something new and useful every time I watch a video of him or listen to a recording. At the risk of sounding blasphemous (to the other old cats here) I think that Carter is cut from the same DNA as Davey Tough. Both are inspiring groove masters IMHO.
 
Markkuliini said:
Since you're often quite critical and require very specific "hoops to be jumped through" by other players to please you, not mention how demanding you are about sound, it would absolutely wonderful if you let us all hear how it really done. By you I mean.
Doesn't need to be a hifi recording. But please, teach us. Let us enjoy your playing. B)
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I understand this sentiment. But personally I don't think it's necessary for someone/anyone to have to prove their playing to have an opinion. It's the whole
"art is subjective" argument that doesn't need to be repeated here. Do you have to be a great writer to understand great writing ? Or to find fault in something that doesn;t move you ?

Personally, I happen to understand exactly what he is saying. I don't want to speak for JDA, but he comes from another time when , at least to me, the criteria were different. It wasn't based on watching a youtube video, and you needed to be emotionally moved and not just "impressed". It reminds me of people who say " how can you break a cymbal?" and they've never felt the power of Elvin Jones live. It also reminds me of an old scenario on Cymbalholic where this jazz drummer ( Boogaloo Jones or something, from upstate NY) was talking about improvisational comcepts that like 4 out of the 400 hundred members understood. And they totally beat him up because they didn't understand it.

and it's the internet, where you can't criticize anyone in public because it's always going to offend somebody... Well, maybe JDA doesn't believe in that, and doesn't care. More power to him I say...
 
jaymandude said:
I understand this sentiment. But personally I don't think it's necessary for someone/anyone to have to prove their playing to have an opinion. It's the whole
"art is subjective" argument that doesn't need to be repeated here. Do you have to be a great writer to understand great writing ? Or to find fault in something that doesn;t move you ?

Personally, I happen to understand exactly what he is saying. I don't want to speak for JDA, but he comes from another time when , at least to me, the criteria were different. It wasn't based on watching a youtube video, and you needed to be emotionally moved and not just "impressed". It reminds me of people who say " how can you break a cymbal?" and they've never felt the power of Elvin Jones live. It also reminds me of an old scenario on Cymbalholic where this jazz drummer ( Boogaloo Jones or something, from upstate NY) was talking about improvisational comcepts that like 4 out of the 400 hundred members understood. And they totally beat him up because they didn't understand it.

and it's the internet, where you can't criticize anyone in public because it's always going to offend somebody... Well, maybe JDA doesn't believe in that, and doesn't care. More power to him I say...
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It was the legendary Marvin Bugalu Smith. Joe, in particular, took exception to his 'know-it-all' attitude and he was indeed, chased out of town.
Ironic, given that he was the real deal - playing with Sun Ra, Archie Shepp and Mingus. A bunch of (mostly) fat old white guys who play in shorts at garden parties where nobody listens and spend thousands to have gear just like Tony/Elvin/Jack etc were offended that he carried himself like he knew more than them.



Those good old cymbalholic days weren't always that good.
 
jaymandude said:
I understand this sentiment....
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It's not only this thread in talking about. It's this years long pattern that his writings have, and I find that they very often derail the conversation to unfruitful direction, since they are so critical and also, to put it mildly, hard to understand.
Would have been nice to see if the "authority" of one of the toughest members here is completely self-made or is it based on actual experience.
 
fenrir said:
It was the legendary Marvin Bugalu Smith. Joe, in particular, took exception to his 'know-it-all' attitude and he was indeed, chased out of town.
Ironic, given that he was the real deal - playing with Sun Ra, Archie Shepp and Mingus. A bunch of (mostly) fat old white guys who play in shorts at garden parties where nobody listens and spend thousands to have gear just like Tony/Elvin/Jack etc were offended that he carried himself like he knew more than them.



Those good old cymbalholic days weren't always that good.
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Cool. Thanks for the clarification. I'm trying to refer to the sentiment rather than actual facts of the case. Sorry if I got the details wrong.
 
Markkuliini said:
It's not only this thread in talking about. It's this years long pattern that his writings have, and I find that they very often derail the conversation to unfruitful direction, since they are so critical and also, to put it mildly, hard to understand.
Would have been nice to see if the "authority" of one of the toughest members here is completely self-made or is it based on actual experience.
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what can I say ? it doesn't bother me. I've been on the boards for years and have finally learned to ignore mountains of things I don;t agree with.
 
Markkuliini said:
It's not only this thread in talking about. It's this years long pattern that his writing
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I've posted what little I have recorded and filmed a thousand times here

and I never forced Bugaloo out of of nowhere!
I never forced nobody out of nothing! lol
 
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jaymandude said:
I understand this sentiment. But personally I don't think it's necessary for someone/anyone to have to prove their playing to have an opinion. It's the whole
"art is subjective" argument that doesn't need to be repeated here.
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I absolutely don’t think it’s necessary for anyone to prove their playing either. Under normal circumstances. However, when giving context its due, I think any comparison for the sake of validating one member's harsh opinion of another forum member is perfectly fair. I've seen and listened to both members. The French refer to any such subsequent determination for purposes of validity as a fait accompli.
 
Let me add that when taking about music or drumming, I think that inexperienced drummers might have good and valid opinions.
BUT when talking about sound, especially cymbal's sound, and ESPECIALLY with such an authoritarian and know-it-all attitude, then not everyone's opinion is equal and over should be able put the money where the mouth is.
Why?
Because it takes a great deal of touch and experience to pull out a great sound or of cymbals. Hobbyist's opinion on sound has very little value to me, if the said hobbyist himself doesn't know how to get the sound.

This is the main reason why I'm interested on hearing this critic's own touch and sound.
 
I sent it to you pal
-please go make your point with someone else
 
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JDA said:
I sent it to you pal
- please go make your point with someone else
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If you're taking to me, then I didn't think I can receive messages from you, since you're on my ignore list.
Post, what you send, here.

I'm not picking a fight with you (like you originally wrote) I just wanted to see if you have any credibility to be such a hard a** critic, especially about drum and cymbal sounds.
 
I sent it to you pal

then you can go start a fight elsewhere
* well you ain't going to learn anything by ignoring people
 
Like I said JDA is on my ignore list, so what am I complaining about, if I don't see his posts.
The reason is, that because he is so active, engaging and critical, he's able to derail lots of threads and members start to quote him.
It's impossible to escape that flooding.
 
wear a raincoat

So the guy asks for examples I send him examples he says I don't listen anyway.
Wow. Good Luck
 
So the guy asks for examples thru pm I send him examples he says I don't listen anyway.
Wow. Good Luck
 
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