Need some opinions, black panther over citrus mod.

  • Thread starter xtchc1978
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Here's a way to look at it:
Citrus kits 22-16-13-12 sell for around 3500 bucks these days.
An expert like Jack Lawton can peel the finish but it's expensive. I paid 600 bucks to get a bass drum peeled. Price for peeling depends on how easy it comes off, and how difficult it is to get the glue off the citrus covering.
Then you have to find correct inlay for the hoops.
Peeling four drums could cost 1500 or up?
The restoration process can take a year or more easily. Jack's a busy man and it's slow tedious work removing the glue.
Or you can try peeling the drums yourself and possibly pulling off the citrus wrap while peeling panther, or rubbing a hole through the citrus wrap while removing glue with a solvent......
 
Bun Carlos said:
Here's a way to look at it:
Citrus kits 22-16-13-12 sell for around 3500 bucks these days.
An expert like Jack Lawton can peel the finish but it's expensive. I paid 600 bucks to get a bass drum peeled. Price for peeling depends on how easy it comes off, and how difficult it is to get the glue off the citrus covering.
Then you have to find correct inlay for the hoops.
Peeling four drums could cost 1500 or up?
The restoration process can take a year or more easily. Jack's a busy man and it's slow tedious work removing the glue.
Or you can try peeling the drums yourself and possibly pulling off the citrus wrap while peeling panther, or rubbing a hole through the citrus wrap while removing glue with a solvent......
Click to expand...
Good advice as an amateur would definitely run those risks, luckily I have been restoring drums for decades and have literately restored hundreds of kits. This would not be the first time I removed vinyl that was glued to a drum. To remove or not remove is the question.
 
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Remove! Black Panther is boring. The world needs more citrus.

My opinion.
 
For me it would depend if I was keeping or selling.
If I was going to flip I'd leave it be and let the next
guy deal with the mess. If I was keeping I'd be stripping
 
Risk verse reward seems too great to remove the wrap. Let the future buyer emotionally and financially draw their own conclusions to justify paying the high price at a chance to have what could be the finest unfaded example of citrus known.
 
drumtimejohn said:
Risk verse reward seems too great to remove the wrap. Let the future buyer emotionally and financially draw their own conclusions to justify paying the high price at a chance to have what could be the finest unfaded example of citrus known.
Click to expand...
FYI: Don't think the wrap underneath panther is going to look any different than all the other citrus mod drums.
"Finest unfaded example"....citrus mod colors don't fade like mod orange purples or psych red greens.
I've added "peeled" citrus mod drums to sets and they look no different than original citrus mod drums.
 
Bun Carlos said:
Risk verse reward seems too great to remove the wrap. Let the future buyer emotionally and financially draw their own conclusions to justify paying the high price at a chance to have what could be the finest unfaded example of citrus known.
Click to expand...
FYI: Don't think the wrap underneath panther is going to look any different than all the other citrus mod drums.
"Finest unfaded example"....citrus mod colors don't fade like mod orange purples or psych red greens.
I've added "peeled" citrus mod drums to sets and they look no different than original citrus mod drums.
Click to expand...

I agree Bun. I have never seen citrus mod fade. It's a pretty odd phenomenon IMO. If you have the know how to do the job and make it look factory I think you should do it. The drums will look great and will be worth a good price. Bum wrap even makes a repro that is spot on and you could easily get pieces to match the hoops. If you decide to do this I think it would be ever so cool if you could document the process so we can see how it went. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
wflkurt said:
Risk verse reward seems too great to remove the wrap. Let the future buyer emotionally and financially draw their own conclusions to justify paying the high price at a chance to have what could be the finest unfaded example of citrus known.
Click to expand...
FYI: Don't think the wrap underneath panther is going to look any different than all the other citrus mod drums.
"Finest unfaded example"....citrus mod colors don't fade like mod orange purples or psych red greens.
I've added "peeled" citrus mod drums to sets and they look no different than original citrus mod drums.
Click to expand...

I agree Bun. I have never seen citrus mod fade. It's a pretty odd phenomenon IMO. If you have the know how to do the job and make it look factory I think you should do it. The drums will look great and will be worth a good price. Bum wrap even makes a repro that is spot on and you could easily get pieces to match the hoops. If you decide to do this I think it would be ever so cool if you could document the process so we can see how it went. Good luck with whatever you decide.

With that info, entombed might be the best marketing word vs unfaded. Point being, a buyer may be very interested in the drums as is and it could command high dollar. The mystery of the set alone and a buyers ability to discover the unknown is a draw. Once the set is altered it can't be called original. I know it's a supply issue, but outside of that, if these don't fade what motivation might a buyer have to buy an altered set vs original? Best wishes on your decision. It's a nice problem to have.
 
I bought a bp over citrus set for $1100 shipped w. Moved bass drum Spurs. Came with bp removed. Cost around $1000 just to get the glue off. It's a very long process, I believe, and very meticulous. I'd pay or sell, not do it myself, personally, but I'd get it off.

The results were worth it, and I kind of regretting selling that set. It's a very cool wrap.
 
xtchc1978 said:
Here's a way to look at it:
Citrus kits 22-16-13-12 sell for around 3500 bucks these days.
An expert like Jack Lawton can peel the finish but it's expensive. I paid 600 bucks to get a bass drum peeled. Price for peeling depends on how easy it comes off, and how difficult it is to get the glue off the citrus covering.
Then you have to find correct inlay for the hoops.
Peeling four drums could cost 1500 or up?
The restoration process can take a year or more easily. Jack's a busy man and it's slow tedious work removing the glue.
Or you can try peeling the drums yourself and possibly pulling off the citrus wrap while peeling panther, or rubbing a hole through the citrus wrap while removing glue with a solvent......
Click to expand...
Good advice as an amateur would definitely run those risks, luckily I have been restoring drums for decades and have literately restored hundreds of kits. This would not be the first time I removed vinyl that was glued to a drum. To remove or not remove is the question.
Click to expand...
Well if you can save the money for removal, I think the answer(s) are obvious: 1) From a money stand point-Citrus will make you way more, and 2) If keeping, citrus is the more interesting choice. The end.
 
Certainly the bulk of the value here is in the Citrus wrap under the Black Panther, The question is whether the set is worth more as is for it's potential to be a near perfect and rare Citrus set or as a stripped and ready to go CM set. At some point, obviously, they will be stripped as that is the whole point for most of us after a rare and desirable finish. But the question remains as far as resale potential (if that is the route the original poster wants to take) which is the best way to proceed with maximum profit potential. With or without the BP in place this is still a CM set, It sounds like removing the BP is either risky if you don't know what you're doing, or expensive if you have someone that does know what to do tackle it, and time consuming either way. So you have to factor that into the equation along with the chance that something might get screwed up during the removal (no matter who's doing it).

IMO the fantasy about what lies under the BP ( not whether or not it's there, which it obviously is, but the whole "what will they look like?" I bet they look really cool under that, etc." ) line of thought is just as enticing to many people as would a stripped set in CM ready to go. At some point they are sure to be stripped as that is the whole point, it's just a question of when is the best time to do that if the drums are going to be marketed.
 
Here are my two cents as someone who is not capable of removing the BP on my own:

If I were in the market for a CM kit, I would either want to find a BP covered kit for really cheap, or one that is ready to go. I personally wouldn't spend a whole lot more on a BP covered CM kit than I would a regular BP kit. A little bit more, but not much. Like K.O. said, I don't think it will stay BP very long if you sold it off as is. Whoever buys it wants it for what is underneath. If you have the know-how to do it yourself, and you enjoy that sort of thing, I would say go for it.
 
That is the primary fantasy for us all, the cheap (or relatively cheap) Black Panther set with the CM lurking underneath waiting to be found like a vein of gold or a mason jar full of cash buried in the yard. That threshold has already been met here so it's doubtful that anyone is going to get these "cheap" now. My question is merely whether it's worth the trouble to take off the BP prior to a sale. While I'm certain a CM set that's strippped and all ready to go is going to be worth the most the question is whether the time and effort to reach that point is worth the price difference between those and a set of known CM drums still under BP. I guess that mostly depends on whether you can do it yourself and how much your time is worth to you. Also factoring in the risk of possibly screwing them up if you decide to do it yourself but don't quite know what you're doing.

Regardless, the O.P. is one lucky dude to have this to worry about.
 
1) I like the black panther finish! So much, in fact, that I "rewrapped" my DW jelly bean kit (black 12, red 14, yellow 18, maple snare) in it! If anybody is interested, let me know (it cost only $7.00 and is removable with no damage to the original finishes!)....

2) Depends on your skill level as noted. I don't know enough about how the vintage Ludwig BP wrap was affixed to the citrus finish. I actually really dig the look of the BP with portions of the citrus showing (sort of like a wall with brick exposed).....now if you could figure that out, that would be sweet! (See sample below - imagine it all over the drums)

If these are a holy grail-type set, then I'd probably just leave them alone if you want to sell them. Only if you are 1000% sure you will keep them would I mess with them. I've learned 2 things - 1) No matter how custom/fancy an XXX brand kit is with whatever bells/whistles, it is ONLY special to the original customer - nobody else gives a crap the special shells/sizes/options/finishes/lugs/hoops/etc., and 2) once you "ruin" a vintage piece (ie: take off wrap, extra holes, newer parts, etc.), you open the floodgates of collectors to nickel and dime you if you choose to sell it. I am not a museum piece collector, but I have passed on many items because somebody screwed something up, added something, TOOK WRAP OFF, and/or tried to do something that backfired. Most collectors prefer the item freshly dug up as is with no mods........good luck though!
 

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