Reverb seller can't provide simple information to ID their rare cymbals?

[Tama CW]

Sort of unexpected treatment from a Reverb seller with over 900 sales.

Listing a potentially set of rare 1950's Zildjian 14" hi hat large stamps.....yet listed as "new beats" at 810/1411 gm.
They look hammered and lathed like something from late 60's to mid-70's. No signs of an obvious "ghost" stamp image on the opposite side,
which is very common to large stamps. One of the stamps seems to be missing the top Ottoman script. Odd for a Lg stamp. I've seen an occasional LS1
weakly struck, but cannot ever recall seeing that on an LS2 or LS3. Their condition is dazzling, almost new, very uncharacteristic of something from the mid-1950's.
At the listed $325 price might be an ok deal if as described.....if not....only worth $175-$200 as medium weight New Beats.

To make it more challenging, the stamp photos are so sharply angled to so you cannot verify the lettering alignment known to all LS2 large stamps (see photo).
I asked the seller to provide a straight on stamp photo, or an actual height measurement (1.75" or 1.5"). It's not hard. Their only responses were that it's
the "largest stamp I've ever seen," or "I can tell".......or "because there is literally no other stamp this large." .....and "It's pretty obvious which stamps are which"
or "You must not be that smart to have such a difficult time figuring out which stamps are which." Just wow. Politely asking for information is now a Reverb no-no?

There you have it, proof positive. A seller who can't be bothered to break out a ruler, or take a better photo for confirmation. It's a challenging enough buyer's market out
there right now....and here's a seller doing everything possible to not sell an item.....Big Cymbal Sound, Shoreview, MN.

https://Reverb(dot)com/item/88455778-zildjian-14-a-zildjian-large-stamp-hi-hat-cymbals-pair-1953-1957-traditional

If the link doesn't work, type in the title of the listing on Reverb. This will work: zildjian-14-a-zildjian-large-stamp-hi-hat-cymbals-pair-1953-1957-traditional

===================================

Proper LS2 - "N" in ZILDJIAN over "E" in GENUINE alignment....left leg of N points down well to the left of the E.

 

[zenstat]

The first photo of the hammering on the two tops is sufficient to identify 1970s produced cymbals. You don't even need to bother with the rest of the photos or concern yourself with what trademark the cymbals happen to have.

Maybe they got their misinformation from one of the other normally reputable sellers on Reverb?

reverb.com/item/87540267?show_sold=true

Every time I venture on to Reverb or eBay these days it seems like I run across a 1970s produced cymbal wearing a 60tall stamp misidentified as Large, Big, Huge or some other superlative about height accompanied by claims of 1950s. It's a jungle out there. This one is also on the Drugan site:

22" Zildjian A 1950s Large Stamp Ride Cymbal 3054g *Video Demo*

For your kind consideration is this vintage 22" Zildjian A Large Stamp ride cymbal from the mid-50s. It's in excellent condition and sounds beautiful. It has a bold and warm sound with strong, clear bell. No cracks, bends, flea bites, a near perfect hole, and one tiny edge imperfection that can...

www.drugansdrums.com

I think this is another example of contagion of misinformation like the mythical C2 stamp

Stamp Anomalies

 

[zenstat]

And here is the other place where he likely got his incorrect information. There are currently 3 pairs (including his) which are all misidentified.

I already had the other two misidentified pairs in my database. Nice to see all 3 pairs in one screen...

 

[Tama CW]

And here is the other place where he likely got his incorrect information. There are currently 3 pairs (including his) which are all misidentified.

View attachment 713863

I already had the other two misidentified pairs in my database. Nice to see all 3 pairs in one screen...

I'm pretty used to the misuse of the terms large, big, huge being applied to 60's 1.5" "tall" stamp.....which is probably what this seller has.
I've just NEVER run into a seller before that will not consider any other possibility with their item.....esp. when their own photos tend to dismiss
their initial attribution. I challenge of lot of sellers on Ebay and Reverb and help them correct their listings.....probably several every week.

Sometimes I point out that their 1960's or 1970's cymbal is actually a more valuable/scarcer 1940's to 1950's cymbal. Many seem to assign a date
based on the age of the drum kit the cymbals were found with or what year they bought them "used." When it comes to major sellers like
Drugan's, Badges, Maxwells, etc that have an improper attribution.....I ignore it. That's beyond my pay grade to help them figure things out.

 

[Cliff DeArment]

Sometimes people don't like to see they might be wrong about anything. Impossible! I rarely talk to a seller. What for? If I know the stamp and weight and like the look, I buy it or not. I'm not there to teach those guys. Go to school! Go find Zenstat's Gallery, etc. They don't want to learn stuff anyway. They just what to get rid of it one way or another.

 

[Fat Drummer]

While it seems pretty defined (here at least ) that these are most likely 70's models, the seller lost me at, "You must not be that smart to have such a difficult time figuring out which stamps are which." Dude, I don't care if he gave me darn things he can keep them at that point. No excuse to be a rump in the first place but particularly if your wanting to sell an item in a sea of items for sale!

 

[Drum4Drums]

Big Cymbal Sound on Reverb is the worst seller I've ever encountered. You are lucky they were only unhelpful.
I asked if they had more than two 22 inch K custom medium rides in stock and weights. I looked like there were two but the pictures and description were the same. They were mint and I asked if the were new old stock. Some sellers I bought from do that. He responded with a dot. . I thought that was a typo and asked. The he responded with. 0 and I asked again and he just started calling names and said go F yourself. I said What? and he continued. I had to report him and I don't know if anything was ever done. I don't know what the deal was but I just could not believe he was messaging me all this on Reverb as a seller. He just went on saying he did not need to sell anything he was Fing rich. He said F yourself and just called names. I have all his messages on file as well. I would suggest no one ever buys anything from Big Cymbal Sound on Reverb. All my other Reverb transactions were smooth.

 

[Tama CW]

In the same vein as drums4drums story: Just had a Reverb seller tell me they didn't want to sell me anything because I asked too many
questions. They don't want to deal with people like that. I had asked them if their vintage cymbal had any signs of edge warping, something
pretty common to the model cymbal in question....could they possibly provide an edge view of the cymbal. They replied with "NO." And that
we won't do business with you.

It's sort of comical. As I I've had a number of Ebay/Reverb sellers who sent me significantly flawed goods not as described.....and told me it was
my fault "for not asking enough questions." I guess you can have it both ways now.

 

[Tama CW]

Duplicate post.

 

[Steech]

Sort of unexpected treatment from a Reverb seller with over 900 sales.

Listing a potentially set of rare 1950's Zildjian 14" hi hat large stamps.....yet listed as "new beats" at 810/1411 gm.
They look hammered and lathed like something from late 60's to mid-70's. No signs of an obvious "ghost" stamp image on the opposite side,
which is very common to large stamps. One of the stamps seems to be missing the top Ottoman script. Odd for a Lg stamp. I've seen an occasional LS1
weakly struck, but cannot ever recall seeing that on an LS2 or LS3. Their condition is dazzling, almost new, very uncharacteristic of something from the mid-1950's.
At the listed $325 price might be an ok deal if as described.....if not....only worth $175-$200 as medium weight New Beats.

To make it more challenging, the stamp photos are so sharply angled to so you cannot verify the lettering alignment known to all LS2 large stamps (see photo).
I asked the seller to provide a straight on stamp photo, or an actual height measurement (1.75" or 1.5"). It's not hard. Their only responses were that it's
the "largest stamp I've ever seen," or "I can tell".......or "because there is literally no other stamp this large." .....and "It's pretty obvious which stamps are which"
or "You must not be that smart to have such a difficult time figuring out which stamps are which." Just wow. Politely asking for information is now a Reverb no-no?

There you have it, proof positive. A seller who can't be bothered to break out a ruler, or take a better photo for confirmation. It's a challenging enough buyer's market out
there right now....and here's a seller doing everything possible to not sell an item.....Big Cymbal Sound, Shoreview, MN.

https://Reverb(dot)com/item/88455778-zildjian-14-a-zildjian-large-stamp-hi-hat-cymbals-pair-1953-1957-traditional

If the link doesn't work, type in the title of the listing on Reverb. This will work: zildjian-14-a-zildjian-large-stamp-hi-hat-cymbals-pair-1953-1957-traditional

===================================

Proper LS2 - "N" in ZILDJIAN over "E" in GENUINE alignment....left leg of N points down well to the left of the E.


View attachment 713761

Just as an aside, that seems like a freakishly wide weight ratio between the top and bottom hi hat cymbals! A bottom that’s almost twice as heavy as the top?

 

[Tama CW]

Just as an aside, that seems like a freakishly wide weight ratio between the top and bottom hi hat cymbals! A bottom that’s almost twice as heavy as the top?

That's true. And one nail in the coffin of the pair being 50's "large stamps". But it's up to the seller to be able to explain their written listing.
It's certainly "possible" that a large stamp pair was created on day 2 back in the 1950's in an 810/1411 pairing. And maybe 1 of the "could have been"
are rare 50's Large stamp. Always worth asking.......except in this case.

 

[NickC]

That's strange. I always answer every question, and if I don't know the answer, I apologize and say that I don't know. I've also walked on items that I would have otherwise bought because I didn't like the way my questions were answered.

 

[JimmyM]

In the same vein as drums4drums story: Just had a Reverb seller tell me they didn't want to sell me anything because I asked too many
questions. They don't want to deal with people like that. I had asked them if their vintage cymbal had any signs of edge warping, something
pretty common to the model cymbal in question....could they possibly provide an edge view of the cymbal. They replied with "NO." And that
we won't do business with you.

It's sort of comical. As I I've had a number of Ebay/Reverb sellers who sent me significantly flawed goods not as described.....and told me it was
my fault "for not asking enough questions." I guess you can have it both ways now.

They did you a favor. Obviously it’s warped and they don’t want to admit it.